Interview by Daniel Jackson, June 17, 2007
Forrest Green:
Hello, this is Forrest Green, Three Grand Ranches, we’re unable to answer the phone. If you leave a message after the tone, I’ll try to get back with you later. Thank you.
Daniel Jackson:
Hello sir, this is Daniel Jackson from the Air Force Academy. I’m sorry I wasn’t able—
Forrest Green:
I just happened to be here.
Daniel Jackson:
Excellent. How are you today, sir?
Forrest Green:
All right.
Daniel Jackson:
I was wondering if you had time for a quick phone interview right now regarding your time with—
Forrest Green:
I think so. What do you need filling in on?
Daniel Jackson:
Well, just a second, let me put it on speakerphone so I can record so I don’t have to rely on my memory to quote you. Just a second.
Okay. Can you hear me okay, sir?
Forrest Green:
Yeah, I can hear you fine.
Daniel Jackson:
Excellent. First of all, sir, did you arrive in the squadron in June of ’45? Is that correct?
Forrest Green:
I’m sorry, I didn’t get the question.
Daniel Jackson:
When did you arrive in the 449th Fighter Squadron?
Forrest Green:
When did I arrive?
Daniel Jackson:
Yes, sir.
Forrest Green:
I can’t remember the exact date but it’d be early ’45. I left the U.S. in February, and I think I spent about a little over a month in India waiting for orders to go to China. So, it’d be, I’d say, March ’45.
Daniel Jackson:
And you arrived when the squadron was still based at Chengkung?
Forrest Green:
Did I arrive when?
Daniel Jackson:
You arrived when the squadron was still based at Chengkung, south of Kunming?
Forrest Green:
The flight went to Kunming. I think we got one those two-and-a-half-ton trucks that went from Kunming over to Chengkung, which was a short distance from Kunming.
Daniel Jackson:
Do you remember much about Chengkung, like the facilities there or any of the operations that you flew out of there?
Forrest Green:
I’m sorry?
Daniel Jackson:
Do you remember much about Chengkung like the facilities there or any of the operations that you flew out of there?
Forrest Green:
The operations were out of Chengkung for the squadron. Is that the question? I’m sorry. I’m a little bit hard of hearing. Stand by just a minute.
Just a moment.
Daniel Jackson:
No problem.
Forrest Green:
I’m going to change phones.
Daniel Jackson:
Sounds like a plan.
Kim:
Are you there?
Daniel Jackson:
Yes, I am, ma’am.
Kim:
Okay, stand by.
Daniel Jackson:
No problem.
Forrest Green:
Okay, maybe this is a little better.
Daniel Jackson:
Sounds better to me. Can you hear me better, sir?
Forrest Green:
Kim, get on the phone. I can’t understand him. Now, would you say again?
Daniel Jackson:
Can you hear me better, sir?
Forrest Green:
Not much, but a little bit.
Daniel Jackson:
Okay, I’ll do my best. I was wondering, sir, if you remember anything about the facilities at Chengkung, like the dining or your barracks or anything?
Forrest Green:
Just a moment. Kim, I cannot understand him. Will You get on the phone and hear what he says? We may have to have an interpreter. Just a moment.
Daniel Jackson:
Okay, no problem.
Forrest Green:
Between the dogs and the TV, I’m having a little bit of trouble.
Daniel Jackson:
That’s not a problem.
Forrest Green:
Would you ask that last question?
Daniel Jackson:
The last question, sir, was do you remember anything about the facilities at Chengkung, like the food or the barracks?
Kim:
Do you remember anything about the facilities at Chengkung like the food or the barracks?
Forrest Green:
The barracks were somewhat better than Mengtze. We had tents in Mengtze. In Chengkung, they were wooden barracks of the usual army style. I can remember, they were open rafters and they had rats running around on the rafters. And it was great sport for the pilots to shoot birdshot with their .45 pistols at these rats. It was pretty primitive, really. I don’t think there was any indoor water.
Daniel Jackson:
Really? That would—
Forrest Green:
And I also remember it seemed like it was kind of built in a graveyard, because they had some old tombstones around there, but there weren’t any fresh graves.
Daniel Jackson:
Do you remember any of the missions that you flew out of Chengkung? I have the squadron histories here, but unfortunately, they don’t list any names for any of the mission reports.
Kim:
He said he has a history of the squadron, but it doesn’t list any names for the mission reports. Did you fly any missions out of—
Forrest Green:
I’m pretty sure the first missions were flown from Chengkung. I’ve got my old Form 5s showing the different missions and the dates on them, and I believe the first ones were from Chengkung, but it wasn’t long after that that they moved south to Mengtze. Would it serve any purpose if I sent you a list of those mission dates and from whence they came?
Daniel Jackson:
That would be excellent, sir. If you could, that’d be very helpful.
Forrest Green:
I’ve still got those old Form 5s.
Daniel Jackson:
That would be very helpful. I’m trying to bring all this information together about the squadron and put together something. And the funny thing about the squadron histories is that the early ones list names, but they don’t list dates and the later one lists dates but not names, so you just can’t win, I guess.
Forrest Green:
Well, I may have those old special orders that list the pilots, too. That might be of help.
Daniel Jackson:
Yes, sir. Yeah, that would actually help a lot.
Forrest Green:
I’m not sure I’ve got them for every one, but I can remember seeing a lot of them.
Daniel Jackson:
That would be great.
Forrest Green:
I’ll try to make you a copy of those, too.
Daniel Jackson:
I’d appreciate that. Do you remember the move to Mengtze, sir? Do you remember how you got out there and how that went?
Kim:
Do you remember the move to Mengtze, how you got there and how it went?
Forrest Green:
I was one of the pilots that ferried the P-38s to Mengtze. Of course, there wasn’t one plane available for each pilot in the squadron, so the rest of them went by train from Kunming down to Mengtze. And I can remember some of the fellas reporting on it. It was a pretty primitive trip, although it was a regular steam locomotive.
Daniel Jackson:
Okay. Would you describe the living conditions in Mengtze?
Kim:
Describe the living conditions in Mengtze.
Forrest Green:
Mengtze was a walled city, and our base was, I would guess, less than a quarter of a mile from the city. And inside the city, which I think was a French missionary compound within it. And in there, the flight surgeon had his offices. And they were fairly modern, certainly by Chinese standards. But the squadron area that we were in were just typical army tents. We did have a building for the mess halls as I remember it. Then we finally got a building down on the flight line, a “ready shack” they called it. And the people that were on standby for emergency missions, they were always staying down there. And they had a little reading material so you could wile away your time because you weren’t called on very often for emergency missions.
I may have a picture of the old squadron commander, Major Moore. It seemed like he was in a Jeep sitting in front of this, I guess you’d call it, the operations shack. I don’t remember including it in my letter the first time.
Daniel Jackson:
No, I don’t think you did.
Forrest Green:
If I have that picture, I’ll try to make a copy of it for you.
Daniel Jackson:
I appreciate it. So it sounds like the living conditions were pretty primitive out there, just living out in army tents outside the city?
Forrest Green:
Yes.
Daniel Jackson:
Do you remember much about the weather out there, especially how the weather affected your flying operations?
Kim:
How did the weather affect your flying operations? What was the weather like?
Forrest Green:
On occasions it was okay, but when the bad weather moved in, it was very tenacious and they were really just monsoons because it would cloudy up and rain for maybe a whole week and sometimes two weeks. And our company streets were just quagmires. I think in my letter, I mentioned that the runway was all-weather, though, and it was built by the Chinese, with Chinese labor, hand labor. But we built some water towers—and I don’t know where they came from—but the coolies would carry water maybe in maybe a ten-gallon tank on each end of the pogo sticks. And they would climb a ladder and put the water in this elevated tank, and we had the luxury of having a shower from those. Sometimes, it was pretty cool, but it was a welcome relief, rather than taking a sponge bath.
Daniel Jackson:
I could imagine. In your letter, sir, you said that the 449th was probably closer than other squadrons, and this was because it was harder to get up to the number of missions to get rotated out. Would you describe the atmosphere around the squadron? How was it closer? In what ways was that exemplified?
Kim:
You mean like close as camaraderie?
Daniel Jackson:
Yes.
Kim:
Okay, just a minute. He said in your letter you described that the 449th was closer. He assumed because you didn’t have as many missions and you spent more time over there, it was harder to get out because you weren’t as quick to get your missions.
Forrest Green:
That’s correct, Dan. Of course, during these monsoons, when we’d go days without flying, we became very adept at playing bridge, and I had never played it before, but of course, I learned the elementary rules of bridge. And I became kind of a bridge devotee as most of the members of the squadron. Some of them did little gambling, which I never did, but that’s about the way we passed our time. We didn’t have much literature to read.
Daniel Jackson:
Okay. I saw, sir, that you were one of the escort pilots for the Japanese surrender bomber when they flew that bomber into Mengtze. Would you describe that mission?
Forrest Green:
Well, I think I was the element leader of four planes that went down to Hanoi. The takeoff time of their aircraft was long, I guess there was some kind of communications. But when we went down there, the airplane was already in the air, and of course, we got behind it and above it. And my recollection was how slow that “Betty” bomber was. It was pretty hard for us in the P-38s to stay in behind it, because it was kind of just lumbering along, and we had to do, fly just “S”s over it, and would throttle back to about the minimum RPM, and it was quite an effort to be an escort for a ship that was flying that slow.
They knew how to get to Mengtze, because we were behind them and we just followed them. And they went right on into Mengtze, and landed. And of course, so did we after that. And I remember that was my last mission, by the way, and we decided we were going to give them a super buzz job since it wouldn’t be likely to present itself before [again]. So we came down in an attack formation, probably at five or six hundred miles an hour and we shellacked them. But it was funny, the Japs were very humble and they had confided after they had been there a while, that they thought they would all be killed after they surrendered. And just before they left to go back to Hanoi, they passed out some sake, which is a Chinese liquor, I believe, and they seemed to be quite happy to be able to return to Hanoi unscathed.
Daniel Jackson:
Wow, that must’ve been quite the experience to have been at that, kind of a real closure for the end of the war for you.
Forrest Green:
It really was. Of course, we hardly knew what to expect either. They had been rather cunning adversaries, and we were prepared for whatever occurred, but luckily they were very docile, and it turned out rather well. There was another four airplanes that escorted them back and I think they went back without incident also.
Daniel Jackson:
That’s always good. In the—
Forrest Green:
I can remember too, that old plane, the instructions to them were to paint their plane white, and they were to paint the rising sun symbol—you know, the red thing on the wings?
Daniel Jackson:
Right, right.
Forrest Green:
They were to paint that out and put a green cross on it, and that was the most primitive paint job you ever saw. It looked like somebody had a broom and just dipped it in whitewash and just kind of smeared it on the airplane. It was a pretty sorry job, really. But it got the job done. I guess that’s what counted.
Daniel Jackson:
I guess so. They probably didn’t have much in the way of supplies at that point in the war anyway.
Forrest Green:
No.
Daniel Jackson:
Sir, in the squadron history, it comments that in July there were quite a few flying accidents that resulted in people dying. Do you recall any of those accidents or anything like that in general?
Kim:
He said there were a number of accidents, like in July, he said that some people died in. Do you remember any of the accidents?
Forrest Green:
I can particularly remember one that happened close to the field in Mengtze. There was a flight of two P38s and they came in to peel off to make a normal landing approach, and something went amiss and they had a mid-air collision. And the wingman spun in and was killed within sight. The other aircraft, I’ve forgotten the name of the fellow that was killed, but I’ve got it in my diary. But the fellow that was leading the flight was named Savage, and he came back from overseas with us, and I saw him two or three times at the P-38, or the Fourteenth Air Force Reunion in California. And of course, he recalled the accident very plainly and reminded me that when they collided that he could not lower his landing gear, and he had to belly the aircraft in. So I think we lost both aircrafts on that particular accident.
Daniel Jackson:
Sounds like he was lucky to get out of it alive though.
Forrest Green:
Yes.
Daniel Jackson:
Let’s see here. One last question, sir: What do you feel the legacy of the 449th Fighter Squadron is?
Kim:
What do you think the legacy of the 449th Squadron is?
Forrest Green:
Well, at this late date, I’m not sure that I could enumerate what it was. I think it’s crowning glory was probably established before I got in the squadron. But their record in aerial victories were very good. I might add that there was only one Jap plane shot down after I was in the squadron. I think I mentioned that the Japs pulled up and left all of their airplanes back to Japan because MacArthur was pushing them pretty hard from the Philippines.
Daniel Jackson:
Right, right. Okay. Well I thank you very much for your time, sir.
Forrest Green:
All right. I hope I made a little contribution, but I’m sure there are others that can make more detailed explanations than I have.
Daniel Jackson:
Well, I’m trying to get a hold of—
Forrest Green:
I think I mentioned my letter, did you have an occasion to send an inquiry to Richard Maddox?
Daniel Jackson:
I did and he actually sent me a whole pack of information, which was very helpful.
Forrest Green:
Good. I think he would be the best source. As I mentioned also, he had kind of a newsletter he’d put out every month or two keeping us up to date with one another. And as I said, I think we were closer to begin with, and with Richard’s publications we followed each other all the way through, and we still communicate with one another now and then. And so, the numbers are diminishing considerably.
Daniel Jackson:
Yeah, it makes a project like this a little challenging, too. But fortunately, I’ve been able to get a hold of quite a few of you guys, I think about nine or ten. And I appreciate all your cooperation with me. It’s been very helpful. And you can bet that when I finish this project, I’ll send you a copy, sir.
Forrest Green:
Just a moment, Dan.
Kim:
I’m sorry, he missed that.
Daniel Jackson:
That’s okay. I was just saying thank you for the cooperation, and when I finish the project I’ll be sure to send a copy.
Kim:
Okay.
Forrest Green:
Oh, that’s fine.
Kim:
Would he want a copy of that interview you did for the Congressional Library?
Forrest Green:
Dan, a couple years ago the Library of Congress had some kind of a deal where they were taking oral histories.
Daniel Jackson:
Oh, really?
Forrest Green:
And I have a copy. They sent me two copies of that interview. Would it be of any assistance if I sent you one of these copies? I think it’s on VHS.
Daniel Jackson:
Yeah, that’d work fine, actually. I do have a VHS player, so that’d be helpful.
Forrest Green:
Well, there are some things there that I was recalling a little better a couple of years ago, and it gave it a little more detail on some of my missions. Now there’s one thing that I regret. I didn’t take an outline with me before this interview on tape. And one of them was on one of my missions, we found a truck convoy. I think I was element leader, and I was the second one in. And the lead ship had come in on their first pass and the truck convoy just scattered, left the road.
And I was the number two man in. And the truck I picked out to shoot turned over on its side and I was running within about two seconds of pulling the trigger. And you know the P-38 had four .50-calibers and a 20 millimeter cannon, and it would’ve almost pulverized that truck. But just before I shot, I saw some people climbing out of it, and instead of Jap soldiers, which I expected, they had these sampan hats on and kind of black pajamas. So, I didn’t shoot because I realized at the last second that these were those Montangard tribesmen that had probably been in a forced labor deal. So I’ve often wondered how close they figured they came to eternity, because I’m sure they would’ve all been killed with that kind of firepower.
Daniel Jackson:
Yeah, yeah. That was very lucky for them.
Forrest Green:
That’s one incident that happened that wasn’t on the tape, and I thought I’d just tell you about it and the rest of them will be on the tape.
Daniel Jackson:
I appreciate that, sir. Thank you very much. Do you still have my address?
Kim:
Yes, he does.
Daniel Jackson:
Excellent. If you could send me that, sir, and those copies, that would be outstanding. And hopefully, I’ll be done with this project by the end of the summer, and I’ll be sure to send you a copy.
Kim:
Well, that’d be great. I’ve heard a lot of these stories, but it’d be nice to read your version. And we were out at Colorado Springs a few years ago and got to visit the Academy and go through NORAD.
Forrest Green:
I was real impressed.
Kim:
Have they loosened up any? If we get out that way, are you allowed visitors?
Daniel Jackson:
Yes, ma’am. Actually, there are visiting hours, and I think it’s probably 8:00 in the morning to 8:00 at night or something like that. And all they require is that you open up your trunk and they make sure you don’t have any bombs on you and stuff. And then you’re allowed to visit around. And if you get a hold of me, if you give me a call before you come out, I could give you a tour, no problem, of the cadet areas.
Kim:
Oh, well, that’d be great.
Forrest Green:
Dan, do you remember that—have you seen that P-38 sculpture in the garden there by the chapel?
Kim:
Yes, sir, I have.
Forrest Green:
Well, I was out there when they made that dedication. I think the P-38 Convention had one of their reunions at that occasion and it was sure good. I saw it, and of course, several others there. It was an impressive thing.
Daniel Jackson:
It is indeed. They’ve actually put out a new one a couple of years ago. It’s a C-46 for the Hump Pilots Association.
Forrest Green:
What did he say?
Kim:
A P-46?
Daniel Jackson:
C-46.
Forrest Green:
C-47, wasn’t it?
Daniel Jackson:
They put a new one out. It’s a C-46 cargo plane.
Kim:
C-46?
Daniel Jackson:
Yeah, for the Hump Pilots Association.
Kim:
Hump Pilots Association.
Forrest Green:
Oh, that was a C-46, wasn’t it?
Daniel Jackson:
Right, right.
Forrest Green:
Cargo?
Daniel Jackson:
Correct.
Forrest Green:
Yeah, we had the 46s and of course the old work horse, 47, which was that twin engine. 46, I think, had four engines.
Daniel Jackson:
It had two as well, but it was larger. I think it was the 54 that had four engines.
Kim:
Let me just confirm, he’s got the letter here, Cadet Daniel Jackson.
Forrest Green:
Well that’s him.
Kim:
Post Office Box 4609, US Air Force Academy, Colorado?
Daniel Jackson:
That sounds great.
Kim:
80841?
Daniel Jackson:
That’s the place.
Kim:
Okay.
Daniel Jackson:
Well thank you very much.
Kim:
We’ll forward that information to you.
Daniel Jackson:
Sounds like a plan. Thank you very much. And if you’re ever out this way, you have my phone number, just give me a call, and I’d be happy to give a tour.
Kim:
Oh, well that’d be great. That’d be worth the trip out there.
Daniel Jackson:
And you two have a great day and thanks for helping me out.
Forrest Green:
Okay, that’s fine. Good to talk to you, Dan. Good luck to you.
Daniel Jackson:
Thank you very much. You have a good day.
Forrest Green:
Okay, bye-bye.
Daniel Jackson: Bye.