Interview by Kun Shi and Daniel Jackson, August 10, 2017

I started about twenty years ago, but in the early years there was a lack of information. Gradually, I found Tengchong archives and they had a lot of information about planes falling down, but many of them are Hump transport planes. The Chinese called all of them the Flying Tigers.

The twenty-one planes you talk about, is that just in Tengchong County?

Some of them may have fallen over, including into Burma, but the pilots were saved.

Besides the Tengchong archives, what other sources did you use to research these?

First it was the archive and then through Lisa Findley, they got the flying records. First, her father’s, then that led to other stories. Through the records they knew who saved him. Then they found those people here. Then those people knew others who saved other airmen. The high success rate of saving American pilots partly is because it was promoted by the Tengchong government through their local contacts. Because all the township leaders at the time were also acting as the schoolmasters and based on the central government rule to encourage people to save American pilots, they developed local pamphlets, including different ways of how to recognize if they are American pilots and if you can speak English, then these are words you can use. If you cannot, then they use Chinese words that were similar to the pronunciation.

Was this information they came up with themselves, or did they get these helpful suggestions from the central government and then build pamphlets from that?

The local pamphlets were actually designed by the locals. They had a lot of – Tengchong was famous in Yunnan, actually, for some highly educated individuals. And some people actually went to Japan to study before the war.

Was it also because of the English presence before the war? I know they had a consulate…

Yes, the caravan trade and of course missionaries.

Of the 21 cases you mentioned, were those all rescued, or does it include killed or otherwise?

It includes both. But basically, if they were shot down near the villages, then they were usually saved, but some fell deep in the mountains and it took four or five days to discover where they were, mostly likely.

What did the people do with the bodies if they found a dead one?

I don’t know.

Of all the people he has talked to, did he record many of the stories of the people who rescued these Americans?

In the early years just written notes. Now it’s mostly audio notes and some video. I was a newspaper reporter before. Later on, I worked for a local TV station, so it was easy for audio/visual.

I would like to exchange information with you, gain access to your interviews, and share our database and interviews with American veterans.

I actually had an article about the twenty-one cases and it was translated into English as well, in a magazine, in 2002. Then, the rescuers, they were still relatively younger. I will email it to you tonight.

Do you have any pictures of the pamphlets the locals made to instruct folks on how to rescue Americans?

There might be, but I don’t have a copy. The reason is everybody is talking about it, but no one can show partly because all this political campaign. They could never have one – if it was known, then they could become a target. And also some of these schoolmasters were probably rich guys who some of them were actually executed after the land reform. But anyway, it’s also proven by Lisa’s father’s records. He said when he was not able to communicate with the locals, they pulled out a little booklet. Lisa’s father – from the first township they transferred him from to the second one – and maybe the third one. The schoolmasters – it was usually those guys – and then after ’49 they were executed.

During the war, do you know if these schoolmasters handed out these pamphlets and talked about this topic just in the mountains and the hills away from the Japanese occupation, or did they secretly do it in Japanese occupied towns as well under the nose of the Japanese?

Yes. Only in Tengchong and some major towns did the Japanese have control. Otherwise, they basically worked through the local village heads. And those village heads are really double-sided. Upon request, they provide food supplies to the Japanese, but then they also report to the Army, to the Chinese Army – you know, how many Japanese, when they went to this village and what they did.

I know the Japanese instituted a school curriculum in this area and mandated its use. I assume the schoolmasters paid lip service to that, but then subversively… ?

Correct.